Nansen CEO Highlights: The "Three-Stage Law" of Crypto Narratives and Investment Opportunities

Original Title: The Next Crypto Boom Has Already Begun

Original Source: The Rollup

Original Translation: Plain Language Blockchain

In this in-depth interview, we invited Alex Vanovic, co-founder and CEO of Nansen, to explore the future of on-chain analytics, the disruptive power of AI agents, and the grand vision of the crypto world moving toward the "real world era."

Alex will exclusively reveal how the Nansen mobile app uses innovative AI agents to transform complex on-chain data into an intuitive "agent experience," allowing users to track "smart money" movements as if conversing with an expert, and preview the upcoming trade execution feature.

In addition, as one of the largest validators of Hyperliquid, he will analyze the three-stage model of crypto narratives from "innovation" to "industrialized excess," boldly predict how stablecoins and RWA (real world assets) on-chain will make the current crypto market seem like a "toy world era," and share his unique insights on over-financialization and Balaji's "network state" concept. Get ready to stand at the forefront of data science and see the future landscape of crypto clearly.

1. Nansen Mobile App and AI Agents

Host: All right, let's talk. The Nansen mobile app is now live in the app store! Can you introduce why it's called the best "agent experience" in crypto? What can it do for users?

Alex Vanovic: That's right! One of the main problems we've faced in the past is that users found the product hard to use and didn't know which dashboard or metric to look at. So we thought, why not imagine what investing will look like in 2030 and build it now? For many software products, the traditional user interface may be disappearing, and in the future, you might just need to talk to an AI agent.

After downloading the app, besides tracking your portfolio, the cool thing is you have an AI agent that understands your portfolio and can access all on-chain transaction data. This means you can ask it, for example: "In the past 30 minutes, what meme coins have smart money bought on chains like Solana or Base?" It can fetch the data in real time and give you an answer in seconds.

You can choose between quick mode or expert mode. I can even paste a transaction hash, and it will analyze user behavior for me. This is a whole new way to navigate blockchain.

Host: That's very intuitive. You can ask all kinds of questions, inquire about smart money movements over different time periods. Ultimately, I think I could just say: "Handle it for me! You know my risk tolerance and trading preferences, go execute these trades."

Alex Vanovic: I love that you went straight to this point, because that's exactly where we're headed! The next step is obviously to let users execute trades directly in the app, such as launching in November.

I think after users operate multiple times through this agent trading experience, they'll start to trust it, and eventually feel: "Why don't I just give it an overall strategy and let it execute, while I monitor and check?" It's a bit like Tesla's autopilot roadmap, building trust through years of use.

Host: I think this is like "vibe trading" or "vibe programming." You've internally tested prototypes with trade execution, how does it feel?

Alex Vanovic: It's much more fun than clicking dashboards and looking at price charts! It's smoother and more enjoyable. AI is great at simplifying complex processes, removing all the annoying friction, and letting you focus on what you want to do.

Now our app can already do this: once you enter the address you want to track, the homepage will generate personalized preset prompts for you. For example, if your portfolio is up, the homepage will have a card asking: "Why did Pangu (for example) go up today?" You don't even have to think about what to ask, we've already prepared the prompts for you.

Host: As someone affected by emotions, FOMO, etc., it's hard to calmly assess my own trading or investment performance. But with this app, I can ask: "What was my best trade? What mistakes did I make? Are there patterns in my mistakes?" That's so valuable.

Alexovic Vanovic: Absolutely agree! With this app, you can clearly see your trading performance, find error patterns, and analyze calmly. It's not only practical, but also makes the whole process more fun and intuitive.

Host: Right? Are you planning to add more memory features in the future? Let the agent know more information, like why I made this trade, or what my overall goal is?

Alex Vanovic: That's right, we want to add more memory features, just like ChatGPT or Grok's memory files, to make the agent more personalized and useful. Users' trading reasons or overall strategies can be stored, and the agent will become smarter and provide more precise help.

2. Hyperliquid Validator and the Three Stages of Crypto Narratives

Host: Okay, Alex, I'd like to change the topic. Nansen is one of the largest validators on Hyperliquid. What's it like to operate such a large-scale validator? What challenges and controversies have you encountered?

Alex Vanovic: Yes, besides the foundation, we are the largest validator on Hyperliquid. We started running validators for Ronin about a year ago and found it interesting to align with the community's interests. We acquired a small startup, Stake With Us, and now have over $2 billion in staked assets, growing more than 30 times in a year.

We quickly integrated Hyperliquid and decided to co-operate the validator with Hyperco. We handle the technology, Hyperco has deep ecological knowledge, and played a key role in the USDH governance vote.

Host: Speaking of that vote, I heard there was some controversy?

Alex Vanovic: Yes, I'd like to clarify some misunderstandings. Some people thought the result was predetermined, but at least for us, it wasn't. We seriously examined all proposals, communicated with all bidders, and spent a lot of time analyzing. We had an internal scoring system and encouraged more people to submit proposals. In the end, the committee abstained, and it was entirely up to the stakers. The result was very close, with Paxos coming in right behind.

Host: Now Native Markets has staked and locked $200,000 of HYPE, opening a new era. Many stablecoin issuers say they will continue to launch products on Hyperliquid. Is this what you want to see?

Alex Vanovic: Absolutely what I want to see! Paxos, Athena—these players are all excellent, and you want them all building in the ecosystem. Besides the token symbol itself, I think these stablecoins will perform very well.

Host: As one of the largest validators, what do you think is the next stage for Hyperliquid?

Alex Vanovic: It's hard to say, the Hyperliquid ecosystem is so rich! I think all narratives or innovations in the crypto industry follow a three-stage process.

· Innovation: Hyperliquid is the innovator in full-stack derivatives trading.

· Cloning: Some variants of similar concepts appear.

· Industrialized Excess: Someone finds a way to mass-produce these clones.

For example, meme coins: Dogecoin is the innovator, Pepe is the clone, and Pump.fun is the factory that produced 84 million meme coins.

Interestingly, Hyperliquid has a project called Based, which built a WordPress-like version of Hyperliquid, allowing users to deploy their own front-end interfaces while the back-end is still Hyperliquid. This model is very smart, and perhaps industrialized excess will be a bunch of Hyperliquid front-ends, which is a good thing for Hyperliquid.

Host: You mention this, and I wonder who will be the winner? Will Hyperliquid continue to lead?

Alex Vanovic: That's a key question. Innovators can indeed be surpassed, but Hyperliquid's unique advantage lies in its technology and community. If industrialized excess is a bunch of front-ends based on Hyperliquid, it's still the core infrastructure and hard to fully replace. However, competition will be fierce, and the future will be interesting.

Host: This reminds me that Tether was the innovator in stablecoins, then there were clones like USDC, and now it's the industrialization stage. Do you think stablecoins or other categories are already overextended, or are some areas still early?

Alex Vanovic: Stablecoins themselves are still early; they have clear product-market fit. I think in the next few years, we may see trillions or even tens of trillions of dollars worth of stablecoins minted.

Paxos is an interesting example; they do white-label stablecoins, like BN USD, until Gary Gensler (SEC Chairman) stopped them. **They actually "lost" a lot of text messages and emails, which is outrageous.** A multi-billion-dollar business was destroyed overnight—really, someone should seriously investigate this.

3. Real World Assets On-Chain and Over-Financialization

Host: Regarding the impact of stablecoins on the on-chain economy, do you think you can take a broader perspective?

Alex Vanovic: Stablecoins are an example of traditional financial assets being put on-chain, but the dollar isn't the only asset that should be on-chain. In the coming years, securities, stocks, real estate, etc., will all be on-chain, which will dwarf the current size of the crypto market. The crypto market is still very small now.

I've said before that by 2040 or 2050, when we look back at crypto history, the current stage will be called the **"toy world era."** We've created a lot of speculative, experimental tokens.

But the upcoming "real world era" will bring 10,000x or even 1,000,000x value on-chain. For example, why can't Nansen's equity be on-chain? If young people can buy just 1% of a real estate share and accumulate gradually, it will be a game changer. Blockchain mechanisms make asset collateralization much easier.

Host: You mentioned that lending markets and Aave will be the main beneficiaries of more value coming on-chain, which is interesting.

Alex Vanovic: Yes, if you have Google stock or real estate, you'll want to use them as collateral for lending, which is very convenient. The core of blockchain mechanisms is to enable asset collateralization and make lending more efficient. I think Layer 1 assets, some Layer 2 assets, and protocols like Aave that will obviously benefit from value coming on-chain are all good investments.

Host: As we put more assets on-chain, I want to ask about the issue of global over-financialization. What do you think about over-financialization?

Alex Vanovic: I lean more toward Milton Friedman's view: if people own things, they'll take better care of them. I think letting people own assets is good for the world. We should strive to create a world where billions of people can be owners in some way, not the World Economic Forum's "you will own nothing and be happy."

Collateralization is interesting because it may lead to a split between hard assets and soft assets. You can put hard assets like bitcoin, ethereum, etc., in DeFi "banks" and use them as collateral for lending when you need to spend. Currently, these products are mainly for the wealthy through wealth management services, but DeFi opens it up to everyone. That's exciting.

4. The Network State Concept

Host: You mentioned people owning networks or assets, which is at the core of Balaji's network state concept. I know you've been to his network school at the border—can you share your experience there?

Alex Vanovic: It was a great experience. I attended a founder-to-founder event. The network school is still in its early days, but I'm very optimistic about what Balaji is building. I love its futuristic vibe; it feels like everyone is building the future together. Being with other builders, the atmosphere makes you feel like anything is possible.

Host: What attracts you most about the network state concept?

Alex Vanovic: I grew up in Norway, and after moving abroad, I felt a stronger connection through the crypto community—in a sense, it's my primary community and where I feel I belong. But crypto isn't a country, so it's hard to feel patriotic about it. Balaji is trying to turn that sense of belonging into something more concrete, and I think a lot of people can relate.

Maybe in a few years we'll all have network state passports! Following him is like following your curiosity, wanting to see what his vision ultimately becomes. His vision fits our times very well.

Host: Alex, thank you for joining the show! You have a global perspective on this industry, can connect the dots, and your insights are very valuable.

Alex Vanovic: Thank you for inviting me! Glad to be here.